New run of orbshields

[kenyee]

"The USB shield uses a FTDI USB to UART chip. The RFduino has a bootloader which loads code over UART. The USB shield does not have an ARM programmer. If an ARM programmer is used to try and program the RFduino, it will erase the bootloader."



Asked them about their USB shield.

So it looks like there's a bootloader they put on the SOC via an ARM programming port, then it runs a bootloader that watches for commands over the serial port much like the Arduino bootloader.

[vputz]

Yep, much like I thought. So actually a useful solution would be to use something like an 8u2 instead of the FTDI, like the Uno does; you could program the 8u2 to be a USB hid device (and I think a COM port at the same time), thus enabling USB HID and programming, bluetooth, and ARM for a fairly low cost. The only catch is writing the bootloader; we'll see if the rfduino guys are forthcoming on that (I just don't feel like learning to write a bootloader yet)

[rich887]

Hello Fellow Orbers,



Hopefully I wont be offending anyone by asking in the forum but I've read through it and haven't found an answer. I miss my orbs and would like to purchase the new Orbtron 9000 but I don't understand the different models :?: . Can anyone explain the difference .



Orbotron 9000 (kit) :?:



Orbotron 9000 SMD :?:

[vputz]

Sure, Rich--



I originally planned on just selling a kit, for two reasons: one, I didn't think the added labor of assembling devices would be worth it, and two, kits are cool; there's just something nice about making something that you later use, and so much of the technology we use on a daily basis is a magical black box to the people who use it. I was hoping to make something that anyone could solder.



The only problem is that I had to use a part that wasn't easily solderable by a beginning hobbyist, an SMD ("Surface Mount Device", also known as SMT, Surface Mount Technology) chip. So I would have to do that part myself. And then I had a problem--I still wanted to offer a kit, but if I was going to have to solder one part, maybe it wouldn't be too bad to solder everything anyway, so I tried making an SMD version. It turned out well--it's a lot smaller. But it does take extra effort from me, so it costs a little more.



So that's why two versions, plus I was just curious which one would sell better. The kit comes with a circuit board and the main chip pre-soldered; you have to solder everything else. It's a little cheaper and a little bigger, but if you like assembling things, it's nice to have a kit. The SMD version is a complete board; you plug it in and it works (for certain values of "works"; it comes programmed for the SpaceOrb 360 to act as a HID device, but if you want to program it you need to install drivers and the Arduino environment). The SMD also has the advantage that I test them (although I did have one that I tested arrived at the destination nonfunctioning).



Hopefully that explains things. I appreciate everyone's patience with this; so far most people have been pretty happy with the result, although I still make mistakes (not sending "shipped" notices fast enough, and one person had trouble installing drivers that I haven't been able to figure out yet). I really do appreciate any feedback!

[rich887]

Thanks vputz !!!



I just wanted to let you know I think what you've done is amazing ... And I'll be sure to let you know how it works when I receive mine. :!: :D

[A Future Pilot]

Just curious...will the Orbotron 9000 work with a SpaceBall 4000?



(I wanna use it for Descent, Retrovirus, I-War 2, etc.)

[vputz]

They do work for the 4000 and 5000 (and Magellan SpaceMouse). The only catch is you have to reprogram it since it comes programmed for the 360 and doesn't send the right init string for the 4000. That's not (well, it shouldn't be) a big deal; you just install the Arduino programming environment and drivers, change one line in the sample program, and upload (VDX had some problems installing the driver on Win7, so I'm a little distressed about that as it should "just work", but it worked ok on several other computers so I'm hoping it's an isolated incident).



Also, apologies for a couple days delay shipping the last order or two... I ran out of screws for the cases and had to order some more; they should ship Monday or Tuesday (and I'm taking a week vacation on Wednesday, so orders after that may take longer... particularly as I still have to make a few).



There is a MINOR revision on the horizon which just drops the size of the SMD part a little bit more (and changes the USB connector) but doesn't change any functionality at all, but it'll be a month or so; I haven't even gotten the first prototypes back yet.

[kenyee]

[quote="vputz"]VDX had some problems installing the driver on Win7, so I'm a little distressed about that as it should "just work"[/quote]

What problems did he have?

Vista/Win7/Win8 are a bit fussy about unsigned drivers so you have to reboot into the windows bootup menu and allow unsigned drivers to be installed before you can install the Arduino drivers.



2 for 2 on the SMD boards arriving safely here...

Surprised spaceorbs still sell for $25 on fleabay :shock:

[VDX]

... I've changed the windows setting to "accept unsigned driers", but my Win7 64Bit told me, that it can't do anything with this sort of *.inf file :-/



Viktor

[kenyee]

[quote="VDX"]... I've changed the windows setting to "accept unsigned driers", but my Win7 64Bit told me, that it can't do anything with this sort of *.inf file :-/
[/quote]

I'm on Win8 64-bit. The orbotron.inf file just uses the arduino drivers, so if you installed the arduino IDE (you do have to do that...can't just try installing the orbotron.inf...yeah, I know, I didn't read the instructions :-) you should be ok.



BTW, anyone know whether the Spaceball 5000A is worth getting over the Spaceball 4000? From what I dug up from an old forum post on the 3dconnexion boards:

======================

1003 -- serial, truly huge, 2 rows of 4 buttons + 1 inside the ball

2003 -- serial, much smaller, 1 row of 8 buttons + 1 inside the ball (for the most part--there were other variations)

3003 -- serial, quite small, just a ball and a palm rest, 2 buttons

SpaceController -- serial, PC version of the 3003

4000 FLX -- serial, the modern look but a more flexible ball

Spaceball Avenger -- serial, hand-held game product -- small production run

SpaceOrb 360 -- serial, more popular hand-held game product

ASCII Sphere 360 -- Sony Playstation version of the SpaceOrb 360

SpaceBall 5000 -- two serial verisons (5000 & 5000A) and one USB version. These differ from the 4000 by having a 3Dconnexion-developed sensor inside. The same sensor used in the SpacePilot, SpaceNavigator, SpaceExplorer. The difference between a 5000 and a 5000A is completely different and incompatible firmware between the two.

The 6094 numbers are IBM OEM units. As I recall the -030 was a 2003, the -040 is probably a 4000, the -051 is probably a 5000A (which is firmware compatible with the 4000).

[Tehrasha]

[quote="kenyee"]BTW, anyone know whether the Spaceball 5000A is worth getting over the Spaceball 4000? From what I dug up from an old forum post on the 3dconnexion boards:



{snip}



The difference between a 5000 and a 5000A is completely different and incompatible firmware between the two.

The 6094 numbers are IBM OEM units. As I recall the -030 was a 2003, the -040 is probably a 4000, the -051 is probably a 5000A (which is firmware compatible with the 4000).[/quote]

While technically correct, this explanation is a bit confusing....



AFAIK, the 5000A is simply a rebranded 4000. It would use the SpaceBall4000 (Spaceball) setting on the Orbotron9000 rather than the SpaceBall5000 (Magellan) setting.



I blame IBM for trying to look bigger and better at the time.



See image::

[img]http://spacemice.wdfiles.com/local--files/gallery/SpaceBall_4000_8.jpg[/img]

(if you have a 5000A, whose bottom plate differs from this, please send me a picture!)



In the end, the answer is 'No.' There is no advantage of a 5000A over a 4000.

[kenyee]

[quote="Tehrasha"]
AFAIK, the 5000A is simply a rebranded 4000. It would use the SpaceBall4000 (Spaceball) setting on the Orbotron9000 rather than the SpaceBall5000 (Magellan) setting.[/quote]

That makes more sense than a 5000 w/ backwards compatible firmware :D



Is there any difference in the 5000/Magellan vs. the 4000? From what I've dug up, the 4000 uses pressure sensors like the SpaceOrb and the 5000 uses some sort of optical sensor design.

[Tehrasha]

[quote="kenyee"]Is there any difference in the 5000/Magellan vs. the 4000? From what I've dug up, the 4000 uses pressure sensors like the SpaceOrb and the 5000 uses some sort of optical sensor design.[/quote]

Yes, this agrees with my findings as well.

For obvious reasons, I have never disassembled any of [url=http://spacemice.wikidot.com/collection]my spacemice[/url] to check, though. :)

[kenyee]

[quote="Tehrasha"]
Yes, this agrees with my findings as well.

For obvious reasons, I have never disassembled any of [url=http://spacemice.wikidot.com/collection]my spacemice[/url] to check, though. :)[/quote]

You're a collector :)

Do you find the 5000 more accurate/responsive than the 4000? That's the only thing I found that might be noticeable. The 4000 is supposedly smoother (probably less discrete) but the 5000 should be faster w/ the optical sensors instead of requiring analog measurements of a pressure sensor.

[Tehrasha]

[quote="kenyee"]You're a collector :)[/quote]

Poke'mon Syndrome.... "Gotta chatch'em all!" :D


[quote]
Do you find the 5000 more accurate/responsive than the 4000? That's the only thing I found that might be noticeable. The 4000 is supposedly smoother (probably less discrete) but the 5000 should be faster w/ the optical sensors instead of requiring analog measurements of a pressure sensor.[/quote]

I would agree with this assessment as well. The 4000 has a softer feel as well, with the 5000 being a bit stiffer. More likely due to different springs rather than anything to do with the sensors. The wrist rest in the 5000 is also weighted, making the mouse much less likely to slide around your desktop.



The 5000 is probably my favorite overall, with the SpaceMousePlusXT coming in a very close 2nd.

I use them primarily with Blender, and find them both very smooth.

I find the newer SpacePilot and SpaceNavigator are almost too sensitive.